2001 Accent will not start!

Hey All.  I have a 2001 Accent, 54K miles (Sig needs updating) and automatic trans.  Always runs beautifully. 

In January, I was travelling, when I stopped somewhere and turned off the car.  When I got back in the car 20 minutes later, it would not crank.  I kept trying off and on for the next hour and it finally cranked.  Car turned and turned like it was trying to crank, but not getting any spark or fuel.

Instance Number two:  February - car would not crank after sitting for a day or so.  It finally cranked after ten minutes.  Same thing.

Instance Number Three:  March - Got home this morning from a trip out of town this weekend and turned off the car.  Got back in the car three hours later to head to work, car will not crank.  It still will not crank.  I have tried everything.  It's storming bad so I can't get out to check for spark.  But the battery is not even two years old, and the plugs and wires were replaced last month. 

This is very frustrating.  I am starting to feel that I can't trust the car.  Someone suggested the Crank position sensor.  How can I tell if this has gone bad and how do I replace it.  Any other suggestions?  My main problem right now is time wise, I'm very limited in what I can do.  I just don't have enough hours to sit and wrestle with it.

I have checked the HMAservice site.  Can't find anything about crankshaft position sensor.

I'm lucky that I have an older (and unfortunately...more reliable) car that the wife and I keep as a backup for situations such as this.  I'm trying to avoid a tow to the dealer for repair, but I am tired of this car screwing with me.

Thanks!

Stephen

While in the hmaservice site, select the 1.5 SOHC engine.  Drill down:

Fuel System => Engine Control System => Crankshaft Position Sensor (CKPS) => Troubleshooting

Has a poor picture, but describes where it is located (look on the bell housing end of the engine).  Explains diagnostics if you are handy with an ohmmeter.  I think this is the same setup on a 1.6 DOHC engine.  These are fairly easy to access and replace compared to other Hyundai engines that have the sensor buried under a timing cover.

Thanks.  I have the 1.6L DOHC engine.  How can I determine if it is the CPS that has failed.  I don't want to throw a $50.00+ part at it only to have that not be the problem.  I'm going to test for spark tomorrow.  Could it be the fuel pressure regulator?  I've heard people have had problems with those too.

If scroll down the window on the right side, there's a section that covers testing the sensor with an ohmmeter.  On a good sensor, you should measure resistance of "0.486 ~ 0.594kΩ at 20°C (68°F)" between the two terminals.  No fuel and no spark are symptomatic of a bad crank rotation sensor.  If the ECM does not detect that the crank is turning when the starter engages, it will not activate either the fuel or ignition systems.

I've just re-read you first posting.  If the starter itself is not turning, then you have another problem not related to the CKPS.  So how did you finally get the car started for the 3 events you cite?  When you mean "not cranking", is the starter motor turning but not engaging the flywheel or is the starter motor simply not respond when you turn the key?

I should have been clearer.  Starter and battery are fine.  The car turns and turns but will not actually fire.  When I turn the key, the car just turns and turns but never actually cranks.  After trying off and on for about 30 minutes, it fired.  Symptoms are like it's not getting any fuel or spark.

Replace the crank rotation sensor.

Well I don't have time to fool with it until this weekend.  That, and the weather has been miserable.  Fortunately, we have a backup vehicle.  This weekend, I'm borrowing an OBDII scanner and I'm going to check for codes first, before I start spending all this money on sensors.  Does anyone know if the OBDII tells you exactly what the code means, or if it just gives a number that you have to reference somewhere else?  Anyone have a link to OBDII codes for the 1.6L engine?  Thanks.

OK, at the risk of sounding stupid, I'm going to ask.....


Is the Crank Rotation Sensor the same as the Crankshaft Position Sensor?

Bear with me, this is my first Hyundai and I'm totally new to the 1.6L engine.  I've driven an old Chrysler with a 2.5L 4Cyl for the last 7 years (my backup car) and it's quite different than this engine.

quote:

Is the Crank Rotation Sensor the same as the Crankshaft Position Sensor?

Yes, I use both terms and use them interchangably.  Besides Hyundai, I currently have Fords and Nissans in my pesonnal fleet and different manuals use variations of these terms.  Replace the Crank Position Sensor.  I am surprised that your check engine light is not on or that a scan hasn't produced error codes with this sensor problem.

Thanks, Ken.  CEL has never come on.  I haven't had time yet to check codes with an OBD scanner.  That will come this weekend.  Don't have time until then.  I'll report back what I find, but I'm checking the codes before I go pay $54.00 for a new sensor.

Thanks.

quote:

Does anyone know if the OBDII tells you exactly what the code means, or if it just gives a number that you have to reference somewhere else?

Your answer depends on how expensive the scanner is.  I have a cheap Innova scanner I got from Walmart for less than $100 a couple of years ago that's pretty simple...and cryptic.  Error codes are listed on the Hyundai service site, except no codes are provided for 2000 to 2003 Accents.  The codes for the CKPS are consistent for 1999 and 2004 models, so expect either a P0335 or P0336 code.  P0335 means no signal and you will need to check voltage and ground on the harness and resistance on the sensor with an multimeter.  P0336 can mean an improperly adjusted sensor or bad target on the flywheel, but most likely a dead sensor.  The codes are provided under the DTC tab on the service site. 

Most of the veteran forum members would simply say "replace the sensor and move on".

I went to autozone last night after work and rented a Actron Diagnostic Scanner through their Loan-A-Tool program (free, you only pay a deposit which you get back when you return tools).  The scanner instructions said that codes would either be listed as PD or MIL. (Pending Condition or Malfunction Indicator Lamp AKA CEL).  Sure enough, the scanner displayed code 1 of 1: P0335 - CrankShaft Position Sensor Malfunction.  It gave the code, plus a description.  I used the scanner to test the sensor (it does that as well) and the sensor is dead.  I went ahead and did that last night so I could order a new sensor and have it by this weekend, since it's a special order part.  It wasn't too much trouble to check codes, and I wanted to be certain it was the sensor before I spend $54.00 even though I'd already tested spark and don't have any.  I'll keep you guys updated.  Thanks a bunch!

Stephen

OK:  Update, I got the new sensor installed (wasn't hard at all, lucky I have small hands!) and the car still refuses to start!

Turns and turns and now I'm smelling fuel too, where I wasn't before.

Battery and alternator tested, both are good.

Code went away after replacing sensor.  Car doesn't display any codes now.  It's almost like something in the ignition is disabled?

any suggestions?  I am trying hard not to have it towed, but I'm running out of time.

quote:

Code went away after replacing sensor. Car doesn't display any codes now. It's almost like something in the ignition is disabled?

Check for spark, it sounds like there isn't any.  I'd then check every fuse with an ohmmeter in both fuseboxes, particularly fuse #5 under the dash and fusible link-F under the hood.  It never hurts to double check the harnesses under the hood to make sure none were pulled loose while replacing the CPKS.



Thumbnail Image



Thumbnail Image

OK, this is really weird. I didn't have much time this weekend, other than to change the CKP sensor on Friday afternoon. We all know that the car didn't start. Saturday, the car didn't start either. Sunday, nope. Monday, I gave up. I called a tow truck to tow it to the Hyundai dealer. I go outside and put the key in the ignition for the tow man, and tried once more. Fired right up. At first, it was hesitant to fire but did crank. I turned it off and tried it again. Fired up again, but shook a little then smoothed out. Ran some errands around town and now it's firing up smoothly every time.

I still don't trust this car. It has a mind of its own. I won't be going off on long distances until I know for sure that it's running right.

The thing is...once I replaced the CKP sensor, the error code went away on its own immediately, without me having to clear it. Subsequent readings from the OBDII scanner showed "NO CODES FOUND - PASSED".

But it still would not crank. So I'm going to drive it a week or so and see what happens.

At least now it's running. Decided to run AFTER I'd already called a tow and made arrangements for the dealer to diagnose the problem.

At least now I can use my gas. Right before it quit, I'd filled the tank completely up and only gone a mile when it died at my house. And with gas prices, I had to drive my other car which has an even larger tank 

I'm glad you got it running.  Since there are no codes being generated, I suggest a basic tune up and perhaps run some injector cleaner through it and change the fuel filter.

Good luck.

Well that's the thing....I just did all new wires and plugs last month.

Other than that, and a new K&N air filter, I can't think of anything else to tune up.  My old car required wires, plugs, distributor, rotor and cap for a full tuneup.  This one doesn't have all that.  I'll do the fuel filter next, and the injector cleaner.  Time is my major problem here, I just don't have a lot of it right now.

Oh and the car only has 54K.  You'd think it wouldn't need that much of a tuneup

the main relay for the efi system is no good. it's mounted on the driver's kick panel. water gets in it and it goes bad. you have to remove the under dash to access it.

OK, the saga continues. I got the car back from the dealer on the 14th. He replaced the positive battery cable and claimed that it was corroded internally, causing the crank sensor to not get enough voltage to start the car. Makes sense to me. Sunday, the 16th, the wife and I drove it down to New Orleans to the port to set sail on a 7 day Carribean cruise (A belated honeymoon - we were married in December). Car didn't want to start at first Sunday, but we were in a hurry to leave, so I took it anyway since the baggage was loaded in the car. Car ran fabulous. Got a personal best of 35.5 MPG highway with the AC on part of the way down to New Orleans. This was cruising at 68-70 MPH babying the right foot and not being hard in my driving.

Sunday, the 23rd, we arrived back in New Orleans, car had been sitting for a week. Didn't want to crank. I tried for a minute and it finally fired. It was semi-cold (in the 60's when we got off the ship in NOLA). Car ran great, and fired up as long as it was hot.

This morning: It's about 40 degrees out. It's only the second day I've tried to drive the car since I got it back. CAR WILL NOT CRANK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It turns and turns and turns but will not fire. I'm SO ****. I called the dealer and told him as soon as I get it cranked when it warms up I'm bringing it back to him and he can have it until it is cranking the first time every time.

I want to keep this car, I really do.

But I've never had a car that gave me such fits before. Ever. Even my 18 year old Chrysler that I drive as a backup when this one quits on me cranks the first time, every time and has never left me stranded - take that HYUNDAI!

I love this car, it gets terrific MPG and it has relatively low miles for it's age but I need something trustworthy.

In the past month, it has:

New Positive Battery cable and terminal

Crankshaft Position Sensor


Plugs

Wires

K&N Air Filter (It was doing this before I installed the air filter)


(As for the EFI relay, I smell gas when the car is trying to crank.  It's getting gas!  Would this still effect it?  OBDII Scanner is not showing ANY codes.  It only showed the CPK sensor code which went away when I replaced the sensor.)

Well sure enough....as I thought...once it warmed up into the 60's around lunch time, the car cranked. It won't crank when cold, I've figured that much out. I drove it to the dealer and we'll let it sit overnight to see if they can re-produce the problem, so they can diagnose while it's not cranking.

Scanner is not showing any new codes.

The 60K mile service coming up, and the possibility of automatic transaxle failure in the future has gotten me thinking. I haven't ever had a bit of trougble with the auto tranny, but I've read report after report of people who have. I have kept mine flushed and serviced.

I love the 35MPG highway but I need a reliable car. So it may be time to trade it in on a new(er) manual Accent or another small car.

quote:

I drove it to the dealer and we'll let it sit overnight to see if they can re-produce the problem, so they can diagnose while it's not cranking.

The dealer can be running some diagnostics while the cranking the engine, so they should be able to zero in on the problem pretty quickly.  Sounds like a loose connector, failing relay or corroded wire that can't make enough contact when cold.  Since you maintain the car quite well, I wouldn't be in a hurrry to get rid of it once this problem is resolved.  I would think you should have at least another 60K of reliable transportation from it.  I'd like to know what the dealer finds.

Well I got the car back this morning.

This is strange...apparently when I replaced the CKP sensor myself, I didn't use the right length bolt.  The aftermarket sensor I got from Autozone is apparently a slightly different length (or lip?), and therefore, the original bolt from the old sensor was too short and was not holding it in tight enough.  It had come loose and was making an intermittent connection, or so the dealer says.  He couldn't find ANYTHING else wrong.  They went over the car completely yesterday and that is all they found.

The battery cable they replaced a couple of weeks ago indeed did need replacing, I know that for a fact.  I knew even before I took it to the dealer that the terminal clamp was broken, and the cable was corroded, so it's fine that they replaced that.  Sometimes, the whole car would shut off and go dead (no lights, no clock, etc.) when you went to crank it and you could wiggle the cable and it would come back on, so I knew that needed to be replaced.

They didn't charge me anything this time for their diagnosis and to swap the bolt for a longer one (Even though it was my fault since I replaced the CKP sensor myself with an aftermarket sensor), and they even sent a car to take me home from the dealer after dropping the vehicle off and sent a car today to pick me up to get the car.  Very excellent service and seem to be honest.  They could have tried to rip me off by replacing all sorts of unnecessary parts, but they seem very honest.  I like their service.

Now, we'll see if the car will continue to crank every time.

Glad to hear it has finally all worked out.  And thankfully you have dealer with a good service department.  I've found one too but I know some dealers are better than others.

Well, I too am glad you were able to get the problem solved and find a good dealership to work with.  I was afraid this was going to be one of the odd ball wiring problems that are tough to diagnose and never provide any feedback to the computer.  May your Accent live long and serve you well.
 
Ken

I am happy to report, the car is still cranking the first time every time and runs perfect.  I have not had any more no-starts since the dealer tightened up the crankshaft sensor with a new bolt.  So For those who are replacing their crankshaft sensors with an aftermarket one, I would check to see if the length differs and if it does, you need to use a longer bolt to hold it in tight, according to the dealer who solved my problem.  My mileage has increased as well with the warmer weather and I saw 36.5 MPG on my last highway trip a week ago.  I'm very pleased with having a car that runs when it is supposed to.