Slow Fuel Fill Problem Diagnosis
#101
11-18-2015, 06:20 PM
Is my canister located above where the rear end would be, just behind the fuel tank? 2009 4cyl limited. I am sure it is. Now, how the heck are we supposed to remove that with the transverse frame under it? Also, where would the Canister control valve be located on my model. Can't seem to find any pics or info on the web.
#102
11-19-2015, 06:57 AM
The way I see it, having the same car and having asked the same question, is you should remove the rubber hoses off of the filter and see if you see any particulate matter in the form of granular carbon or pellets. If so, then yes you need to change the filter. How? As far as I can see, having tried and having asked here and having asked the local dealership (who would not tell me), two things must be done. First, there is a small plate behind the rear seat. Unscrew it and see the gas tank sending unit and disconnect the lines. Why? Because underneath, you must loosen the straps holding the gas tank and drop it down enough to get the charcoal canister out. If anyone knows differently, please speak up. There is a bolt and clip that holds the canister in place and as I said from my pov this is what I would do and what I almost did.
Then, I took the left rear wheel well cover off and there is that canister valve you were talking about. I changed it anyway because I have high mileage and it was cheap enough. The charcoal canister is not so cheap and if you remove the hose from the valve down to the charcoal canister to blow it out and check for particulate matter, you may or may not have what I have: an eight inch cylinder that is in-line and what it is ... is a $300 air filter. I blew my air line filter out several times but the problem was it was pretty dirty. Rather than spend the money on a new air filter at that price while just simply guessing what was wrong and find out the part was not going to be the solution, I simply removed the in-line filter and replaced it with a same-length piece of half inch copper pipe. It fit perfectly and into the ends of the hoses.
I started the car up and within a few miles, the warning light went out. The code I can't remember, something like P401 but it was the same code as in this thread. So for me it was the in-line air filter, and not the charcoal canister. As I see it, if you change the canister air valve, and if you change the other valve under the hood (I think it is slightly to the right side of the motor and slightly back and affixed on a slide clip), you are probably into $135. The in-line air filter you can take out and replace with a pipe and save yourself $300. So if when you remove the charcoal canister air filter hoses, and you see no charcoal granules falling out, you most likely do not have to change the canister and maybe nothing else except for the in-line air filter. Me-I changed both valves anyway due to high mileage and an interest in doing the simple, affordable parts first. It is two valves/solenoid parts (one on the other side of the filler neck thus the need to remove the left rear wheel well cover to get to the part and one under the hood), and trying the copper pipe. If the condition is resolved, go ahead and knock yourself out and buy the $300 in-line air filter and put it back in instead of the copper pipe bridge.
You can drive around for 25 to 100 miles to see if your light goes out, or you can get someone to reset it but you still have to drive the mileage to see if the light stays out. If so, you are good. If not, you should continue here in the thread. As others have noted, the charcoal canister is what it is and functions unless it is leaking granules from inside (the holding mesh inside the canister has deteriorated, granules are leaking or falling out, and clogging hoses, etc.). For me it was an air blockage. If it comes down it is the leaking canister, it will be bad as I see it there is no way to get the canister out unless you drop the tank some to get it out. Obviously the gas tank is lighter will little to no gas in it. Doing the change in a driveway with the car jacked up and doing it yourself with no hope...well...ugly but the dealer wants about $500 labor and parts for the canister. I do not think anyone really knows which of the four parts to change despite the code that is given. So I say try in-line air filter being replaced with the copper pipe first, then the cartridge valve, then the under the hood solenoid, then if necessary and if you see granules falling out of the hoses...the cartridge. Again, reset your code each time to see...and I am going to put my money on the in-line air filter as the place to start. Blow it out all you want, it has very fine mesh inside and it really gets caked with carbon dust...impossible to clean after 150,000 miles with the original in use all that time. I see no immediate use for it and others have posted it is a California EPA part and not necessary. All I know is my car has pep, the gas goes in without spitting, and the tank fills. Do not overfill your tank! as in up to the gills and click, click, click, and tipping it off for a long trip. That shortens the life of any filter in any car. The thing about the Hyundai system is it stores gas vapors in the canister and then those are supposed to be sucked into the manifold through the hose system and burnt as fuel-great idea is you know where to look and what to replace for parts. It also keeps fumes from building up in the tank. Ever seen anyone open a gas cap and seen it blown across the way? That is because of fume build-up. So the system is necessary, easy enough to trouble-shoot and fix, and even if you change both valves and just replace the in-line air filter with a piece of copper pipe, you are are into far less money than what the dealer will charge. $500 is minimum and usually includes just one part...and later or sooner, the air filter becomes the issue. So do it yourself. If your charcoal canister has to be changed, good luck! That is a pain and about $300 with tax. You will do better buying it online (as with the in-line air filter) as necessary. Other stores do carry the two valves/solenoids. The 2009 having the canister over the gas tank..bad design...but this system absolutely have to parts replaced every 60,000 miles or so. For me the charcoal canister has stayed the original one after 200,000 but the valves are what I have changed three times and just recently for the first time the in-line air filter.
Then, I took the left rear wheel well cover off and there is that canister valve you were talking about. I changed it anyway because I have high mileage and it was cheap enough. The charcoal canister is not so cheap and if you remove the hose from the valve down to the charcoal canister to blow it out and check for particulate matter, you may or may not have what I have: an eight inch cylinder that is in-line and what it is ... is a $300 air filter. I blew my air line filter out several times but the problem was it was pretty dirty. Rather than spend the money on a new air filter at that price while just simply guessing what was wrong and find out the part was not going to be the solution, I simply removed the in-line filter and replaced it with a same-length piece of half inch copper pipe. It fit perfectly and into the ends of the hoses.
I started the car up and within a few miles, the warning light went out. The code I can't remember, something like P401 but it was the same code as in this thread. So for me it was the in-line air filter, and not the charcoal canister. As I see it, if you change the canister air valve, and if you change the other valve under the hood (I think it is slightly to the right side of the motor and slightly back and affixed on a slide clip), you are probably into $135. The in-line air filter you can take out and replace with a pipe and save yourself $300. So if when you remove the charcoal canister air filter hoses, and you see no charcoal granules falling out, you most likely do not have to change the canister and maybe nothing else except for the in-line air filter. Me-I changed both valves anyway due to high mileage and an interest in doing the simple, affordable parts first. It is two valves/solenoid parts (one on the other side of the filler neck thus the need to remove the left rear wheel well cover to get to the part and one under the hood), and trying the copper pipe. If the condition is resolved, go ahead and knock yourself out and buy the $300 in-line air filter and put it back in instead of the copper pipe bridge.
You can drive around for 25 to 100 miles to see if your light goes out, or you can get someone to reset it but you still have to drive the mileage to see if the light stays out. If so, you are good. If not, you should continue here in the thread. As others have noted, the charcoal canister is what it is and functions unless it is leaking granules from inside (the holding mesh inside the canister has deteriorated, granules are leaking or falling out, and clogging hoses, etc.). For me it was an air blockage. If it comes down it is the leaking canister, it will be bad as I see it there is no way to get the canister out unless you drop the tank some to get it out. Obviously the gas tank is lighter will little to no gas in it. Doing the change in a driveway with the car jacked up and doing it yourself with no hope...well...ugly but the dealer wants about $500 labor and parts for the canister. I do not think anyone really knows which of the four parts to change despite the code that is given. So I say try in-line air filter being replaced with the copper pipe first, then the cartridge valve, then the under the hood solenoid, then if necessary and if you see granules falling out of the hoses...the cartridge. Again, reset your code each time to see...and I am going to put my money on the in-line air filter as the place to start. Blow it out all you want, it has very fine mesh inside and it really gets caked with carbon dust...impossible to clean after 150,000 miles with the original in use all that time. I see no immediate use for it and others have posted it is a California EPA part and not necessary. All I know is my car has pep, the gas goes in without spitting, and the tank fills. Do not overfill your tank! as in up to the gills and click, click, click, and tipping it off for a long trip. That shortens the life of any filter in any car. The thing about the Hyundai system is it stores gas vapors in the canister and then those are supposed to be sucked into the manifold through the hose system and burnt as fuel-great idea is you know where to look and what to replace for parts. It also keeps fumes from building up in the tank. Ever seen anyone open a gas cap and seen it blown across the way? That is because of fume build-up. So the system is necessary, easy enough to trouble-shoot and fix, and even if you change both valves and just replace the in-line air filter with a piece of copper pipe, you are are into far less money than what the dealer will charge. $500 is minimum and usually includes just one part...and later or sooner, the air filter becomes the issue. So do it yourself. If your charcoal canister has to be changed, good luck! That is a pain and about $300 with tax. You will do better buying it online (as with the in-line air filter) as necessary. Other stores do carry the two valves/solenoids. The 2009 having the canister over the gas tank..bad design...but this system absolutely have to parts replaced every 60,000 miles or so. For me the charcoal canister has stayed the original one after 200,000 but the valves are what I have changed three times and just recently for the first time the in-line air filter.
#103
11-19-2015, 10:14 AM
So for me it was the in-line air filter, and not the charcoal canister. As I see it, if you change the canister air valve, and if you change the other valve under the hood (I think it is slightly to the right side of the motor and slightly back and affixed on a slide clip), you are probably into $135. The in-line air filter you can take out and replace with a pipe and save yourself $300. So if when you remove the charcoal canister air filter hoses, and you see no charcoal granules falling out, you most likely do not have to change the canister and maybe nothing else except for the in-line air filter. Me-I changed both valves anyway due to high mileage and an interest in doing the simple, affordable parts first. It is two valves/solenoid parts (one on the other side of the filler neck thus the need to remove the left rear wheel well cover to get to the part and one under the hood), and trying the copper pipe. If the condition is resolved, go ahead and knock yourself out and buy the $300 in-line air filter and put it back in instead of the copper pipe bridge.
Thanks so much for your detailed information. I can get the code reset easily at my local parts store.
#104
11-20-2015, 04:15 AM
Yes, that is the air filter. If you put it in park, and put on the brake and jack up one side, you can get under and pull the hose off on each side and see if there are any charcoal granules. If not...you may be golden. Take the filter, and blow it out. You cannot put it back wrong because one side has a flat glide rail that clips onto a tongue clip but be sure to mark with chalk which side goes to the charcoal canister. That is just smart to do. Blow the filter out. You will see lots of dust come out. After that, put it back or leave it off or put the copper tube in-your call...but try to put in some gas from a plastic gas can. If it goes in easy, you are done. If not...well, those vales are it but since it is easy enough to change them, I would say do the under the hood one first and check it for gas going in and if still an issue, take off the left rear tire and remove the wheel cover and change that canister valve. If you DO see charcoal granules, you will have to change the canister or fix it like everyone has (cut open, mesh up, reseal, let the chalk dry, and reuse or use a new one. I will send the picture later this morning of that under the hood valve. Do you have jack stands and a jack if you need to remove your left rear tire-otherwise that wheel cover is very hard to remove.
#105
11-20-2015, 04:29 AM
At the beginning of this tread, there is a sticky on how to check the canister valve and that is to disconnect the hose. The same goes for the air filter-disconnect the hose. Then pour gas in to see it it goes in and does not spit back. I have to think that is the problem (gas spitting out. The rear wheel well cover still has to come off to get to the valve. Just have a can of gas around to check how it goes in. As I said, I just changed the valves anyway due to the number of miles and from the dealer invoice at about 60,000 they had changed both valves and canister but not the filter. When I pulled off my canister valve hose, gas still spit back. When I changed the canister valve, gas still spit back. When I changed the solenoid valve under the hood, gas still spit back. When I finally went to the air filter and put the pipe in, gas did not spit out. So you can throw the dice and pull hoses off and put the pipe in for the air filter and maybe next week the code will come back. You know what I mean. Two valves later, the pipe swap, and that should be it. That better be it or the charcoal canister is the only thing left. Fortunately, if you do or do not see charcoal granules spill out, you will know the deal. Also, right next to the canister control valve on the other side of the filler neck, there is a small open plastic air vent. Take that off and blow it out. Some have found spiders nesting in them and it seems true-some spiders like the smell of gas. Why it does not kill them, I do not know. Chances are your air vent piece is clean enough but since you are there you can pull it out of one end of the hose, blast it, and put it back. That plastic air vent is so recognizable and so cheap looking right behind the filler cap that you can't miss it. It looks like it came off of a kid's Transformer toy.
#108
12-14-2015, 06:00 PM
Which pictures (what post #)?
I'm going to say either an ID-10-T error, a PEBCAK error or your browser settings are blocking them. I can see all the pics in all posts.
I'm going to say either an ID-10-T error, a PEBCAK error or your browser settings are blocking them. I can see all the pics in all posts.
Last edited by NovaResource; 12-14-2015 at 06:02 PM.
#109
12-14-2015, 08:14 PM
So, I had code 0449. I removed the California emissions filter and replaced it with a 1/2" copper tubing of the same length. I reused the clamps from that filter. Then, I replaced the vapor canister vent solenoid. I had disconnected that tubing run at the charcoal filter and found I was able to fill the tank easy. I had no charcoal falling out. It is easy to see; it is the only tube that goes from the fuel door to the charcoal filter sitting where the rear axle would be.
Thus, on a 2009 Sonata, if you have a check engine light with 0449 and it is hard to fill the tank without it clicking off every few seconds, remove that hose at the charcoal filter box.
Many thanks to dkodgis!!!!!
Thus, on a 2009 Sonata, if you have a check engine light with 0449 and it is hard to fill the tank without it clicking off every few seconds, remove that hose at the charcoal filter box.
Many thanks to dkodgis!!!!!
Last edited by fireman-175; 12-14-2015 at 08:15 PM. Reason: forgot to thank someone!
#110
07-04-2016, 04:20 PM
2009 sonata limited 4 cylinder
ok, same thing as the rest of you. P0449 code. i had it fixed twice under warranty and the last 30k miles (i have 90k) the light has been on. the last 15k miles i cant fill the tank. just a tiny bit at a time. we do emission testing every 2 years and it is coming up so i have to get this figured out or it will not pass.
i just finished my workshop with a lift, so today i put it up on there. i can clearly see the charcoal cannister on top of the crossmember behind the tank.
i also took off the back drivers tire and then the fender well cover so i can see the solenoid and lines underneath the fill tube.
i included pictures so you can see each of the pieces.
the first thing i saw was the hose from that "emissions filter" to the charcoal filter box was kinked. i took the small filter off and it was very difficult to blow through it. although i have no point of reference so i dont know for sure how much flow there should be but i assume more than what i had.
i took the filter out (the one that i am holding in my hand) and put a piece of 1/2" copper tubing like everyone else said in its place.
my charcoal cannister had no pieces of charcoal or anything else coming out of it.
i put it all back together and reset the ecm with a scanner. the light went out on the dash, and there are no active SEL's on the scanner. of course the code still shows as YELLOW on the scanner and will for 80 miles or so if the code fault doesnt reappear.
the tank was empty in case i was going to have to drop the tank, so i made it to the gas station on fumes and for the first time in a long time i was able to fill up the tank without it clicking off 500 times.
i will see what happens after the 80 miles is up. or if the code comes back.
thanks for all the help.
tom
i just finished my workshop with a lift, so today i put it up on there. i can clearly see the charcoal cannister on top of the crossmember behind the tank.
i also took off the back drivers tire and then the fender well cover so i can see the solenoid and lines underneath the fill tube.
i included pictures so you can see each of the pieces.
the first thing i saw was the hose from that "emissions filter" to the charcoal filter box was kinked. i took the small filter off and it was very difficult to blow through it. although i have no point of reference so i dont know for sure how much flow there should be but i assume more than what i had.
i took the filter out (the one that i am holding in my hand) and put a piece of 1/2" copper tubing like everyone else said in its place.
my charcoal cannister had no pieces of charcoal or anything else coming out of it.
i put it all back together and reset the ecm with a scanner. the light went out on the dash, and there are no active SEL's on the scanner. of course the code still shows as YELLOW on the scanner and will for 80 miles or so if the code fault doesnt reappear.
the tank was empty in case i was going to have to drop the tank, so i made it to the gas station on fumes and for the first time in a long time i was able to fill up the tank without it clicking off 500 times.
i will see what happens after the 80 miles is up. or if the code comes back.
thanks for all the help.
tom
Last edited by encantotom; 07-04-2016 at 04:30 PM.