Need help w/Terrible mileage, whats your RPM at shifts
 

OK, posted here a while ago about my lousy mileage. Heres my update.
I bought my 09 ET in August, and have 4300 miles on the OD now.
I'm now getting around 17 mpg in city driving, which is pretty much all I do (city driving). Here's the kicker, I get great highway mileage, upwards of 32 or more at 65-70 mph.
Now, I have narrowed my problem down to RPM's at shifts.
Get this, I took it to the dealer last week. Their GDS Diag Computer said I was starting in 1st gear at 746 RPM, shifting from first to second at 1639 RPM's, 2nd to 3rd at 1773 RPM's, 3rd to 4th at 1463 RPM"s, 4th to 5th at 2053 RPM's.
I am looking at my copy of the dealer GDS printout as I write.
So I'm in the dealer waiting when they bring me this printout and go over it with me. I had to laugh.
The head mechanic and I went for a drive, first my driving, then his, not once did either of us see it shift sooner the 2500 RPM's.
The averge my Elantra Touring shifts at 3000 RPMs. Its been like that since about 500 miles on it. Which is why its getting lousy mileage.
My Nissan Titan, with a V8, gets better city mileage, serioulsy.
So, their Diag Computer gave a false report, in their favor, of course.
The values I wrote above are in spec., where I SHOULD be getting my shifts.
That said, if anyone is getting the same real world shifts I am with an automatic, I would like to know, I would also like to hear from those of you getting GOOD city mileage, and where your shifts are coming.
I've been reading alot about Hyundai's and really bad mileage lately, and dealer negligence as a response.
I am considering going to the states attorney because of the Diag discrepencies. That stinks to high heaven. I could see it misreading one shift, or evn two, but all of them. 1st - 5th? That just aint cool.
Mileage is a serious concern in this day and age, and with all the Toyota issues, I think the authorities are looking at this stuff closely now.
The USA market is the one all tha carmakers want, and things are getting dirty I think. At least in this case.
If anyone wants copies of my dealer GDS printout, PM. me.
I'm getting 17 mpg now. If my car were shifting where their computer claims, I'd be clearing 25 mpg city easy. These are REAL numbers, which is to say, a HUGE differance. I dont like being lied to.
On a side note, the dealer's head mechanaic admitted the GDS was WAY off, and I was supposed to recieve a call within three days from "Hyundai Tech Line" whatever that is.
That was thursday before last. Seven working days.
I am quickly losing faith in Hyundai.
John L.

Did you calculated by hand your mileage? The computer might be off mark.

Just took my 2010 ET for a 130km drive and got 6,8L/100km (which is around 34MPG) for a 20% city driving and 70% back-country driving and 10% highway. Numbers are from car computer.

I only have 200km on the odometer.

If it's not shifting until 3000 rpm, that's a problem. You probably need the computer reprogrammed.

Have you tried shifting manually to get it to upshift sooner? If you can manually make it shift sooner then drive a tankfull shifting manually all the time and see if your mileage increases. If it does, get the trans computer serviced.

If the dealership is looking in to this, and are dealing with their tech line, why have you not called them back to pursue this further? It sounds like they agree there is an issue and are willing to work with you to resolve it.

You didn't post where you are, and if your "city driving" includes large amounts of stop & go rush hour type traffic. If your climate is very warm and you are driving in very heavy city traffic I would expect the car to do significantly worse than 25mpg. That said, the diagnostic computer giving incorrect readings does indicate a further issue. It could be that those are the points where it is requesting that the transmission shift, however it is not actually shifting until much later.

I don't see how the Toyota issues are relevant to the mileage your car gets, and the US market is not the one all the car makers want, it just isn't.

Thank for the replys.
First of all, my car has an automatic transmission.
I am in Southern California, on flat grund. And yes, I have calculated the mileage to an average 17 mpg. In my opinion, the on board computer is junk, or mines defective, one.
The comuter generally states 19 mpg, and takes miles to change values. But as I write, its reading 17.5.
Ive ran the 14 gallon tank dry three times, all city driving, I've gotten 253 miles, 242 miles, 248 miles respectively.
I did one tank with highway and city, and got 273, an avergae of 20 mpg.
I am 47 years old with a fairly decent mechanical background. I can pretty much take an engine apart and put it back together.
Of course I'm talking older engines.
I have three roll aways filled with Mac and Snap-On tools in my garage. I'm just sayin' that I know engines and how things should behave.
That said, I am just curious what others are getting.
Notice in my post, their Dyno gave false figures. When a computer designed to diagnose problems with a vehicle is spitting out false value like that, that are in favor of the dealer, who's bread and butter is not cars, but repairs, and warranty work is 0 $ for them, false values should be a warning to everyone, particualarly when all they do is plug it in, say, "Your good," and scoot you on off, but you KNOW there's a problem. Now most of you are likley OK, but those of us that arent, need to address this.
I dont mean to imply Hyundai's dishonest, but I have the printout right here on my desk, and believe me, the values are wrong. ALL FIVE shift values, ALL five....Their head mechanic (I use the term loosely) agreed they are wrong after the test drive.
And as for the call from their Tech Line; I posted the service manager said I would recieve a call no later than 3 days, that was Thursday before last: 3/25/2010 -- Seven working days.
This post is not to complain, its to help others with the same problem, and I know there are more from what I have read. Not just with the Elantra, but alot of their cars are doing this with the mileage.
I have been reading on the net about this happening to people, and the dealer's arent helping. Of course in my case, I have the printout, so they have no way to wiggle out of it. Their computer lied, period.
If I sound upset, I am, because of the machine. Makes me wonder how many people have legitimate warranty issues ther Dyno's are mis-diagnosing, leaving people with poor running cars
Again, these dealers dont make much off car sales, the service department is there bread and butter, and warranty work costs THEM in labor and parts. They avoid it like the plague, when they should be honoring their warranty claims.
I for one, was influenced by their 10 year warranty. But what good is it if they dont honor it.
And two weeks for a call back that should have been 3 days, from a company this big, also make me nervous and angry.
On a side note, I love the car. Seriously. Its a great little vehicle! Its got EVERYTHING. I have the black sport package. Sunroof, rims, 4 wheel disc breaks, ipod, USB, airbags all over.
But I traded in a honda Element with just 30k on the OD for one reason, and only one reason, MPG. I was unhappy with the Honda's mileage, and gas, as we all know, is expensive. I wasnt kidding with my truck, either. I have an 06 Nissan Titan with a V8 that gets 18 city the way I drive. But it shifts at 11 or 1200 rpm. like ALL cars should
All that said, I will say agin, and those of you getting good shifts know this, if my car were shifting like their Dyno said it was, I'd be getting 25 MPG city, easy, maybe more, and anyone who isnt getting low RPM shifts, yet drives mellow, should also be concerned. You likley have the same problem I do. Hyundai needs to address, and fix this.
Anyone needs a copy of my Dyno scores, PM me.
John

And toZero Ten, a good friend of mine is a Lawyer for Renault in France, and yes, the American market is what ALL car makers want, worldwide. That said, the American is what everyone everywhere wants. Particualarly in this global economic slump. And the Toyota issue is related in that these issues are indicative of quality control and honoring warranties, and yes, these issues are being scrutinized, heavily, by various US agencies. One reason is to push US car sales, but thats another issue entirely.
But I'm not here to argue, and if your not having the same problem I am, and dont wish to help, or contribute positive comments, then kindly stay out of the discussion.

I know that. But you can still manually shift an automatic.

Your car is running the program that Hyundai engineering designed, and EPA approved..

Unless the transmission is slamming into gear, slipping, shift flare.. there is no fault, it is operating as designed. Shift timing is a result of throttle angle, load, rpm, vehicle speed and a host of other inputs from the powertrain module to the trans control module..

I assume the shifter has the "sport mode"... drive it as a manual auto matic and see how your mileage changes... I drive a 5 speed M/T, I shift anywhere from 2500 -4000 depending on hard I wish to accellerate.. there is no set given spec that an auto trans has to shift before 2500 rpm.. that sounds like you is barely doing 25-30% throttle and lugging the thing, rather than using throttle pedal application to pull longer and shift as the load decrease and upshift to work the load again. Around town, hold 3rd gear till conditions warrant use of 4th.

There is nothing on the dealer level that can be altered.. it all comes from Hyunda Motor Co as an update/ or program change that gets installed to the module' ROM.

There are no current programs for auto trans listed in my dealer login menu, or engine updates available.

I don't even know where to begin with this one..... I think I will just avoid your posts from here on out. As for my contribution to this thread, I think I'll just leave it at:
I do not have the same issue, my car has a 5 speed manual and gets excellent mileage. Best of luck with the dealership, it sounds like you will really need it.

Forgot to add,,, Tech lines doe not talk to customers... they will only talk to the tech or other authorized dealer person.

Your only contact with Hyundai will be Consumer Affairs, a Service Manager who in turn will speak with DPSM, and DPSM with appointment to inspect car and speak with you in person.

This might be a dumb question but if you have a Hyundai Elantra Touring with an automatic transmission, how did you get it with 5 gears. I thought the autos had 4 gears only and manuals had 5 gears.

SBR711 gave the response I would expect from a brush off mechanic. With his logic, a car be redlining to the moon, and there would be nothing wrong as long as it wasnt knocking or slipping. And as for the double talk on codes.
Rediculous.
Technology is, at best, somewhat dependable. I am a computer network engineer, and the last thing I do is simlpy trust the computer. There are ahundred differant things that could be wrong in this car the computer wouldnt catch.
No one should ever accept an answer like SBR711's. Never ever.
Its that sort of logic that gets these dealers out of doing necassary work, and believe me, I've dealt with it before. I've seen these dealers twist and squirm like there's no tomorrow to get out of warranty work.
And to Zero10: Classy response. My apologies for taking a tone. For what its worth, your response was dignified and mature. Yea, I'm just upset.
Anyway, I've driven this car in every possible way, including force shifting by lifting my foot off the accelerator, it just winds down, doesnt shift below 3k rpms, which is rediculously high, and makes for a gas hog.
Can I just get some feedback on where some of you are getting your shifts in automatic. I would really appreciate it.
Thanks,
John

Thanks for sharing your experience. I went to the dealer 3 times for a steering issue. The first 2 times, they said the alignment was set to the computer, they just rotated the tires and gave me a story about people needing to get used to driving a new car. I made a fuss about doing a test drive with a mechanic and an hour later they came back and said the computer was set for a 2009 and not a 2010.

That corrected 90% of the pull but it was still not right. On my next visit for an oil change i mentioned it to another service adviser and he said the steering wheel was crooked so they just adjusted it. Now the car steering is 100%


No issues on RPMs or MPGs for me. I keep toys on my roof rack so I barely get 20 but that's still better than my old van which barely got 13 with the same stuff on the roof :)

Perhaps my response was a bit abrupt as well, my apologies.

I have driven 3 2010 Elantra Tourings with automatic transmissions (we did a lot of poking, prodding and test driving before we bought ours). 2 of them were near-new (under 500km) and they shifted as follows:
1-2: 2500-2600RPM
2-3: 1800-2000RPM
3-4: ~1800RPM (and this left it at ~1300RPM in 4th which is IMO too low, since it has no power and would vibrate badly at this speed)

I also was given a 2010 ET as a loaner while my car was being held overnight, after driving it for ~80km it shifted as follows:
1-2: 2100-2200RPM
2-3: 1800RPM-1900RPM
3-4: 1600-1700RPM (leaving it at ~1200RPM in 4th, which again, is FAR too low)

When I picked it up, the first 5 or 6 shifts from 1-2 were at 3000RPM or higher, then it would pretty must just jump 2-3-4, almost no time in each gear along the way. I was wondering to myself just what was wrong with the car but it did clean up and behave properly after ~10-15km

I did not think the automatics had a 5th gear either, as I don't recall the ones I drove ever shifting a 4th time while accelerating.

It seemed to me that the transmission shift points depend on your driving style over time, i.e. that the transmission computer learns your driving style, but perhaps that was just my imagination. If it does learn your driving style this can make it very hard for a tech to diagnose an issue like incorrect shift points. I wonder if there is some way to reset the learned shift points to aid in further diagnosing the issue? In my VW this could be done by playing with the accelerator pedal with key on, engine off, I forget the exact procedure but every time I let somebody else drive my car I had to do this or it would shift at times I wouldn't expect.


Could you provide more details about the report including shift points that the dealership provided you with? Did they run the car on a dyno to measure it's shift points? You mentioned a dyno in a previous post so I am curious. What I am wondering is exactly how they got those numbers?
I mean, it isn't like the transmission computer logs every single shift since the car was new, so they can't exactly pull those numbers from your drive to the shop or something, and it sounded like they couldn't duplicate those numbers while road testing the car.

Lastly, I hate to play the bad guy here but:
You took it to the dealership and the dealership mechanic agreed there is a problem, they said they would speak to their tech line and call you back within 3 days, but from what is posted here it does not sound like you have called the dealership back over a week later? My first step would be to call back and pursue this directly with the dealership technicians. If you can get them to agree that their computer readings do not match the car's behavior they should be obligated to follow up on this.

My 2010 has about 2200 miles on it so far, and this is about where it shifts:

1-2: 25-2700

2-3: 24 to 2800, depending on how heavy my foot is.

3-4: 21-2200

I'm getting about 28 mpg combined--not stellar, but I'm OK with it.

Good luck getting your issues sorted out.

Thanks Zero10, appreciate it.
Ok, feel kind of dumb here, but have to raise my hand. Yes, 4 gears is right. I listed a fifth value by mistake. It was late that night, and works been killing me lately, which probably isnt helping my attitude. That said, I bought this car for better mileage and I drive 95% city miles.
To answer your questions. The figures I listed were from the Dyno. The car was hooked up and ran. I didnt actually see it, but have the printout. The values I got are in line with what you have experianced in your test drives etc. The mechanic, sitting in the service managers office with me, said the Dyno values were spot on factory spec.
Then he and I test drove it together. Me for a few miles, then him.
No matter what we tried, as in, lifting our foot off the gas pedal to force a shift, going slow, etc. It WILL NOT shift before 3k RPMs. And if we gunned it, it wouldnt shift until well in the red.
I did phone the service manager this past Friday. I left a message on his voice mail. So far no call back from anyone.
Its beyond me how their Dyno was so far off on each shift point.
These things are supposed to recreate real world conditions.
The test drive was on flat, city streets by the way, some long runs, a half mile or so, and some stop and go with traffic lights.
At this point, I feel a fight comin'. Call it gut instinct.
I hope I'm wrong, but I met this same resistance with a Tioga motohome in 2000, and my Nissan Titan.
The motorhome had various issues. Tioga tried screw with me, blaming me, then calling me a complainer. Yea, for 100k, you bet I'll complain if things aint right!
Fleetwood ended buyin that hunk back under Ca. Lemon Law.
I sued for court costs, and time off work too. Won that as well.
The Titan was a tranny issue. You can google it. Alot of the 06 Titan 4X4's had these bad tranny's. I took it in, dealer balked. I drove it with a mechanic, It was slipping in low gear, the dealer still balked. But Nissan Corporate took over and fixed it with no hassles. It was the dealer who didnt want to deal with it.
Anyway, I've had alot of good cars in my life. Just these two past issues.
But what this Hyundai's doing just aint kosher. And if they think I'm just going to suck it up, they are sadly mistaken.
I'm going to give it until next Monday before I call again.
Call it stubborn, but i shouldnt have to keep calling them. I mean, its not like this is some no name motorcycle I picked up on ebay through some chinese company. (No, never have, just sayin') This is a major car manufacturer. And when I pay nearly 20k for something before alls said and done, (Tax, etc.) I shouldnt have to beg for their attention. And if thats the case, then once they get my attention, they wont like it.
I'm a decent man who works hard for EVERY dollar, and I dont like to be screwed, if you know what I mean.
What goods a warranty, ANY warranty, if the company giving it wont honor it?
Dont mean to go on and on, but hey man, even there Dyno isnt working right. Whats that tell you?
Anyway, like I said too, just to be clear. I like the car, or wouldnt have bought it. But like anything, when it dont work as advertised, well, I want it fixed. Pretty simple.
Thanks again for your time and help Zero, and everyone else. it is very much appreciated. Good Karma to you all!
John

The reason I asked about the dyno is because I wanted to make sure they didn't do something stupid like put the car on a hoist and run it with the wheels in the air to get those numbers. Sounds stupid but I've seen it done in shops here and of course, that would not reflect real road conditions when it comes to shift points.

It sounds like your Elantra Touring is shifting at about the same points as everybody else's (and the ones I have driven). I think it would be beneficial if other people posting mileage also posted their driving conditions so that a more direct comparison could be made.

I thought I posted this above but it looks like I didn't. The only mileage numbers I have are from the loaner car, I drove the dealerships car for 82km and it took 7.8L to fill for ~10.5L/100km or 22mpg. My driving is 100% city traffic, I live near the center of Calgary and drive almost exclusively during rush hour morning and night.

So, I finally figured it out on my own.
Went to hmaservice.com, the Hyundai factory service site, and confimed my Elanta Touring, 09', has the adaptive transmission, or Adaptive TCM. All I can figure is that i broke it in on a long road trip, almost 1k miles up the Ca. coast. It must have LEARNED to wind out, thinking I like to race around. seems these cars will adapt to the drivers foot. From what I gathered through research, there used to be a switch in most Hyundais that allowed the driver a choice of three driving styles. Their choice would adjust the Transmission Control Module. About three years ago they started using this adaptive thing. So, it would APPEAR I need the TCM "reset" to learn my style not driving up the windy coastal roads of California coast. Funny thing is, the mechanic who drove with me said, and I quote, "I think some of these cars learn to shift, but not this one" End quote. But on the hmaservice site, which requires registartion, I found the actual step by step instructions for reseting the TCM for just my issue. The mechanic didnt know this, nor the service manager. Or, if they did, they didnt let me in on the secret. Neither of which gives me faith in these guys. Now, in all fairness, this could be specific to the dealer. Tomorrow I am calling Hyundai North America to explain my problem, the evident cure, and referral to a differant dealer for the TCM reset. Because yea, my foot was ALOT heavier driving north through Big Sir etc. But here in town, I drive easy like Weezy.
Thanks again to everyone, and I hope this info helps others with problem. By the way, for anyone who cares, there is a TCM notice (code/program update) for new Sonata's because of, (all together now), "Bad Shift Points"
John

Nice to know John! Nice research.

I have not read the exact article on hmaservice, however I want to throw one thing out there to think about:
Adaptive transmissions usually only consider the last few trips when picking their shift points, it is rare for them to consider more than say 100 miles unless you only drive for long distances on each trip. Because of this, the transmission will then need to be reset frequently, possibly explaining why the dealership was not interested in performing this procedure, because it would need to be re-done at regular intervals. Typically something like this would be covered by the 1 year "adjustments" warranty, so I would only expect them to do this for the first year.


For what it's worth, the procedure to reset the adaptive shift points in my golf was to turn the key to on, and either slowly depress the accelerator and hold it to the floor for 10 seconds then lift and turn the key off, or it was to press it 3 times within 8-10 seconds then turn the key off. I don't recall which, but it was one of those two methods. Perhaps one of them may also work on your car? Hyundai copied a lot of things from VW when they designed the car, so maybe this helps? (also, I heard that the US Elantra Tourings had a drive-by-wire setup for the throttle, unlike us Canadians who have the throttle cable, making this more likely to be of assistance)

Thanks for the reply Zero,
To be more clear, the older Hyundais, as in three years ago or so, had a switch with three manual settings. You would set this switch for "Taller" or "Shorter" gear ratio's. Say one day you want to race around, you can get higher RPM's on the fly.
Responding to your point about the adaptive thing, what I gathered from what I read, is that its a one time deal during the break in period.
Thats when the car learns your habits and fine tunes the TCM to meet your "percieved" needs.
Sound like what your saying is that its progressive adaptation "Fine Tuning itself", as it were, every hundred miles or so. Thats not what I gathered, but could be wrong.
My translation of the information was its a pretty much final after break in, and thats why they have these new procedures in place for the 09' 10' year Elantra Touring models explaining how to reset the TCM for problems like mine, so it can be reset to re-learn if there's a problem.
Seems the service center (Mecahnic) has to log into the Hyundai Service site, connect the car up with a cord, usb on one end goes to the computer, TCM adapter goes to the car, and they re-flash the TCM codes back to Pre-Adapted state from the main Hyundai site. Like flashing a computer BIOS.
This is the only way.
What you said about reseting the VW codes sounds almost like how I reset the check engine light in some cars I've had. Turning the key to access light, pressing the trip button three times, all that. I've seen differant ways to reset that, the check engine light, but dont know alot about these TCM or ECU code flashes and resets.
Something else funny comes to mind on that note. In the Hyndai, at least mine, you reset the check engine light by battery disconnect.
Thats the only way.
So I did that in hopes it would cure this shift issue two months ago.
I left the battery terminals off the entire day.
Now get this, I told the service manager I did that, and he said, and I quote, "Well, thats not good with these new cars. You might have damaged the on board computer."
My response was, "So your telling me if my battery goes dead, or lets say I change it out for a better one, then my car could be damaged?"
He scratched his head. And I said, "That doesnt sound right to me."
I mean, these guys and their excuses can be laughable sometimes.
Sadly, some people buy this garbage. Sorry if I sound jaded, but I am, terribly. Its why I try to do things myself when possible.
Anyway, I'll post what I find out from Hyundai. That said, I'm treading very carefully now. I dont care if I have to drive all day to get there, I want a service center with experianced mechanics.
Have a good weekend,
John

Could I get a copy of those Dyno numbers?