2005 Hyunda Sonata GL Check Engine 442
#1
03-01-2009, 09:51 AM
2005 Hyunda Sonata GL Check Engine 442
I have a 2005 Hyundai GL 4 cyl that I picked up used. After driving approx 200 miles the check engine light came on. Went back to the dealer who sold it to me and he said it was kicking out a code 442 which he said was a general code and he couldn't get a more specific one to take. He put some fuel cleaner in and said to drive it around again. 100 miles later, in dry conditions, the light has come back on again. Is there anything specific we should look for regarding the code 442? Also, the first time I gassed it up, the pump clicked like the tank was full... but when I started driving again, the gauge only showed 3/4 full.
#2
03-01-2009, 10:05 AM
The dealer probably knew there was a code, cleared the code, and sold it to you. The good news is it won't affect the driving or performance of your car.
It could be as simple as not putting the gas cap back on tight. Or the gas cap might have a leak. Clear the code by taking the negative battery cable off for 15 minutes, then see if it occurs again.
As far as the filler hose clicking off, that's normal, don't try to overfill it as you'll mess up the EVAP system. It's a 14.5 gallon tank, and you should get 34 mpg, so don't worry about not getting enough gas in there.
From obd-codes.com:
A code P0442 most likely means one or more of the following has happened:
* A loose or improperly affixed gas cap
* A non-conforming gas cap (i.e. not factory/original brand)
* A small leak/hole in a fuel vapor hose/tube
* Other small leak in EVAP system
* Faulty vent o-ring seal
Possible Solutions
With a P0442, the most common repair is to:
* Remove and reinstall the gas cap, clear the codes, and drive for a day and see if the codes come back.
* Otherwise, replace the gas cap, or
* Inspect the EVAP system for cuts/holes in tubes/hoses
It could be as simple as not putting the gas cap back on tight. Or the gas cap might have a leak. Clear the code by taking the negative battery cable off for 15 minutes, then see if it occurs again.
As far as the filler hose clicking off, that's normal, don't try to overfill it as you'll mess up the EVAP system. It's a 14.5 gallon tank, and you should get 34 mpg, so don't worry about not getting enough gas in there.
From obd-codes.com:
A code P0442 most likely means one or more of the following has happened:
* A loose or improperly affixed gas cap
* A non-conforming gas cap (i.e. not factory/original brand)
* A small leak/hole in a fuel vapor hose/tube
* Other small leak in EVAP system
* Faulty vent o-ring seal
Possible Solutions
With a P0442, the most common repair is to:
* Remove and reinstall the gas cap, clear the codes, and drive for a day and see if the codes come back.
* Otherwise, replace the gas cap, or
* Inspect the EVAP system for cuts/holes in tubes/hoses
#3
03-01-2009, 10:36 AM
Thanks for the response, jsinton. The strange thing is this dealer will service cars, but only those that he sells... I also got this response from justanswer.com (site sponsor):
I have uploaded the description and test for the code po442 here. The problem is you will have to hook up a scanner and run some tests. The gas tank problem could be related, there is a fuel pressure sensor on your system that can cause this. As far as anything you can do, Take a look at all the vacuum hoses that run to the fuel tank under the vehicle, see if any are obviously cracked or broken, other than that you nay have to have a smoke machine hooked up to find the leak.
I sent the info to the dealer and asked if he has a smoke machine if needed to find a possible leak. If not, I'll just take it to a dealership or mechanic that does have one. I'm glad to know that the car is basically safe to drive, and I want to take it to my mechanic anyway for a general diagnostic before driving it long distance.
I have uploaded the description and test for the code po442 here. The problem is you will have to hook up a scanner and run some tests. The gas tank problem could be related, there is a fuel pressure sensor on your system that can cause this. As far as anything you can do, Take a look at all the vacuum hoses that run to the fuel tank under the vehicle, see if any are obviously cracked or broken, other than that you nay have to have a smoke machine hooked up to find the leak.
I sent the info to the dealer and asked if he has a smoke machine if needed to find a possible leak. If not, I'll just take it to a dealership or mechanic that does have one. I'm glad to know that the car is basically safe to drive, and I want to take it to my mechanic anyway for a general diagnostic before driving it long distance.
Last edited by Crazy4suki; 03-01-2009 at 11:35 AM. Reason: TMI
#5
03-02-2009, 09:03 AM
Sorry, I'm a bit confused. Why would putting the hose back on make it so I could not gas up the car?
#6
03-02-2009, 10:04 AM
Well, it's like this. It's only my theory, but I'm willing to bet this is what happened. I could be wrong, but...
These cars are notorious for having a "overfill" problem. If you fill up the gas too much (like I do to calculate MPG) until it spills out the top, then it floods the EVAP system. The charcoal canister gets gas-logged, the little bits of charcoal float up into the whole system, and render it FUBAR. The result is when you try to fill up your gas afterward, it shuts off the gas pump even if you try to dribble the gas in.
I know because this happened to me. I got to the point where I couldn't even put gas in with a plastic gallon gas jug anymore. Finally, I pulled the big hose off the charcoal canister, which allowed me to fill as fast as I want. The problem with that is it's illegal to do that.
It also gives me a P0455 error code, which is GROSS LEAK of the EVAP system. So I started putting the hose back on, only removing it to fill the tank. I have this little routine, where I pull up to the pump, reach under there and pull the hose off, and when I'm done, I put the hose back on. That way I avoid the error codes and fill my tank.
Once, I didn't get the hose back on very well, and after a few hundred miles, I got YOUR code: P04422 - small leak detected in EVAP. I think this might have allowed me to fill the tank, but I didn't try it.
So my theory is that the dealer has put a hole in your system, or maybe left the hose a little loose so you can get gas in your car because you have this problem with the charcoal.
The correct solution to my problem is to replace the charcoal canister, the purge valve, and clean out the charcoal bits from my system, but I don't wanna do it, it would cost a lot and be very messy.
My question to you is: Didn't you get some sort of guarantee from this dealer? If not, isn't there a lemon law or something? I'm almost sure they knew about your problem when they sold you this car. It does take a couple hundred miles before the "check engine" light to go off.
Another thing, you can do a test to see if you have the "floating charcoal" problem. There is a big hose on the charcoal canister underneath the filler tube, under the car. If you can remove that hose, a whole bunch of charcoal will spill out. If it's spilling charcoal when the hose comes off, you know you have the problem.
Ok, so now you know the whole story.
These cars are notorious for having a "overfill" problem. If you fill up the gas too much (like I do to calculate MPG) until it spills out the top, then it floods the EVAP system. The charcoal canister gets gas-logged, the little bits of charcoal float up into the whole system, and render it FUBAR. The result is when you try to fill up your gas afterward, it shuts off the gas pump even if you try to dribble the gas in.
I know because this happened to me. I got to the point where I couldn't even put gas in with a plastic gallon gas jug anymore. Finally, I pulled the big hose off the charcoal canister, which allowed me to fill as fast as I want. The problem with that is it's illegal to do that.
It also gives me a P0455 error code, which is GROSS LEAK of the EVAP system. So I started putting the hose back on, only removing it to fill the tank. I have this little routine, where I pull up to the pump, reach under there and pull the hose off, and when I'm done, I put the hose back on. That way I avoid the error codes and fill my tank.
Once, I didn't get the hose back on very well, and after a few hundred miles, I got YOUR code: P04422 - small leak detected in EVAP. I think this might have allowed me to fill the tank, but I didn't try it.
So my theory is that the dealer has put a hole in your system, or maybe left the hose a little loose so you can get gas in your car because you have this problem with the charcoal.
The correct solution to my problem is to replace the charcoal canister, the purge valve, and clean out the charcoal bits from my system, but I don't wanna do it, it would cost a lot and be very messy.
My question to you is: Didn't you get some sort of guarantee from this dealer? If not, isn't there a lemon law or something? I'm almost sure they knew about your problem when they sold you this car. It does take a couple hundred miles before the "check engine" light to go off.
Another thing, you can do a test to see if you have the "floating charcoal" problem. There is a big hose on the charcoal canister underneath the filler tube, under the car. If you can remove that hose, a whole bunch of charcoal will spill out. If it's spilling charcoal when the hose comes off, you know you have the problem.
Ok, so now you know the whole story.
#7
03-02-2009, 01:13 PM
Wow, thanks for the great and thorough explanation! I really do appreciate the time and patience you took to explain it to me. Unfortunately I bought the car "as is" and I've brought the car back to this guy 2-3 times already. I may just do the workaround you're doing since it's not effecting the performance of the car.
#8
03-02-2009, 04:41 PM
Yeah, doing my little routine won't help you just yet. You need to figure out why you got the "check engine" light first. Like I said, I could be wrong. You might just have a leaking gas cap. Do the hose thing after you discover you can't fill the tank anymore AFTER you fix the leak.
#9
03-03-2009, 04:51 PM
Bad news - took the car to my regular mechanic who got an 0420 code catalytic converter reading. He said the rear one looks like it's been replaced before, and it is the front one that's a problem now. Also the O2 sensor wires are broke and disconnected on top or something. He is going to try and clean the CC instead of replacing because he estimates the CC and O2 sensor work to be around $1200. YIKES! Does that sound right?
#10
03-03-2009, 05:39 PM
If the wires are broken, then that's the problem. I wouldn't try to "clean" the catalytic converter, there's nothing to clean there. It's either good or not, it gets too hot to be "dirty", that's how it works, it burns up everything.
But I'd bet you have the "leaking flexpipe" problem. It's super common in Elantras, and they want to charge a fortune to replace one. If you click the eBay link below, you can see one with the catalytic converter, all for about $150.
Code 0420 means "Catalyst efficiency below threshold".
A code P0420 may mean that one or more of the following has happened:
* Leaded fuel was used where unleaded was called for
* An oxygen sensor is not reading (functioning) properly
* The engine coolant
temperature sensor is not working properly
* Damaged or leaking exhaust manifold / catalytic converter / exhaust pipe
* Retarded spark timing
* The oxygen sensors in front and behind the converter are reporting too similar of readings
Possible Solutions
Some suggested steps for troubleshooting a P0420 code include:
* Check for exhaust leaks at the manifold, pipes, catalytic converter. Repair as required.
* Use a scope to diagnose the oxygen sensor operation (Tip: The oxygen sensor in front of the catalytic converter normally has a fluctuating waveform. The waveform of the sensor behind the converter should be more steady).
* Inspect the downstream heated oxygen sensor (HO2), replace if necessary
* Replace the catalytic converter
And $1200 is a rip-off. See here:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/HYUND...Q5fAccessories
OEM direct fit oxygen sensors can be had from your local Autozone for $75 a pop.
Why don't you get a second opinion from another mechanic?
But I'd bet you have the "leaking flexpipe" problem. It's super common in Elantras, and they want to charge a fortune to replace one. If you click the eBay link below, you can see one with the catalytic converter, all for about $150.
Code 0420 means "Catalyst efficiency below threshold".
A code P0420 may mean that one or more of the following has happened:
* Leaded fuel was used where unleaded was called for
* An oxygen sensor is not reading (functioning) properly
* The engine coolant
temperature sensor is not working properly
* Damaged or leaking exhaust manifold / catalytic converter / exhaust pipe
* Retarded spark timing
* The oxygen sensors in front and behind the converter are reporting too similar of readings
Possible Solutions
Some suggested steps for troubleshooting a P0420 code include:
* Check for exhaust leaks at the manifold, pipes, catalytic converter. Repair as required.
* Use a scope to diagnose the oxygen sensor operation (Tip: The oxygen sensor in front of the catalytic converter normally has a fluctuating waveform. The waveform of the sensor behind the converter should be more steady).
* Inspect the downstream heated oxygen sensor (HO2), replace if necessary
* Replace the catalytic converter
And $1200 is a rip-off. See here:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/HYUND...Q5fAccessories
OEM direct fit oxygen sensors can be had from your local Autozone for $75 a pop.
Why don't you get a second opinion from another mechanic?