poor driving performance in the snow
#11
01-28-2010, 01:39 PM
its not the driver it's the car!
thanks Jkillbury for that! I totally agree. I live in kansas city and just had a pretty nasty winter. I ended up having to pump my breaks (like in the old days) because my antilock system would LOCK THEM when sightest amount of pressure. I didn't have snow tires on so I won't comment too much on how they would spin and not grip anything but I will say my wife's PT cruiser had no problems this year. We switched cars one day and she said my 07 Elantra almost killed her in the snow.
#13
01-29-2010, 08:31 AM
so what would you suggest?
A. keep sliding through an intersection to be hit by oncoming traffic?
B. Let off the brakes and roll through the intersection to be hit by oncoming traffic?
C. Pump the GD things which stopped my car within 2 cars lengths of the time I started to slide.
You can whip out easy answers from the comfort of your computer chair all day long but when it comes to real life you add no value to the questions asked.
A. keep sliding through an intersection to be hit by oncoming traffic?
B. Let off the brakes and roll through the intersection to be hit by oncoming traffic?
C. Pump the GD things which stopped my car within 2 cars lengths of the time I started to slide.
You can whip out easy answers from the comfort of your computer chair all day long but when it comes to real life you add no value to the questions asked.
#14
01-29-2010, 08:43 AM
so what would you suggest?
A. keep sliding through an intersection to be hit by oncoming traffic?
B. Let off the brakes and roll through the intersection to be hit by oncoming traffic?
C. Pump the GD things which stopped my car within 2 cars lengths of the time I started to slide.
You can whip out easy answers from the comfort of your computer chair all day long but when it comes to real life you add no value to the questions asked.
A. keep sliding through an intersection to be hit by oncoming traffic?
B. Let off the brakes and roll through the intersection to be hit by oncoming traffic?
C. Pump the GD things which stopped my car within 2 cars lengths of the time I started to slide.
You can whip out easy answers from the comfort of your computer chair all day long but when it comes to real life you add no value to the questions asked.
A. Slow down
B. Get snow tires
C. Learn how to drive
Maybe you should spend more time in your computer chair instead of behind the wheel during the winter.
Added info:
http://www.aa1car.com/library/abs1.htm
DO keep your foot on the brake pedal. Maintain firm and continuous pressure on the brake pedal to let four-wheel ABS work properly. Avoid pumping the brakes, even if the brake pedal is pulsating. If you own a light trucks with rear-wheel antilock (RWAL) brakes, apply the brake pedal with just enough force to stop your truck without locking the front wheels. This way you can maintain steering control while the rear-wheel antilock system prevents the vehicle from skidding sideways.
DO NOT pump the brakes. With four-wheel ABS systems, pumping the brakes turns the antilock brake system on and off, which decreases braking efficiency and increases your stopping distance. ABS pumps the brakes for you automatically at a much faster rate than you could do it manually, and allows better steering control. What's more, it also pumps the brakes on individual wheels as needed -- which is something you cannot do.
DO NOT pump the brakes. With four-wheel ABS systems, pumping the brakes turns the antilock brake system on and off, which decreases braking efficiency and increases your stopping distance. ABS pumps the brakes for you automatically at a much faster rate than you could do it manually, and allows better steering control. What's more, it also pumps the brakes on individual wheels as needed -- which is something you cannot do.
http://www.edmunds.com/ownership/saf...8/article.html
Give yourself a brake. Learn how to get maximum efficiency from your brakes before an emergency. It's easy to properly use antilock brakes: Stomp, stay and steer. Stomp on the pedal as if you were trying to snap it off. Stay hard on the pedal. Steer around the obstacle. (A warning: A little bit of steering goes a very long way in an emergency. See Tip 8.) If you drive on icy roads or roads that are covered with snow, modify your ABS technique: After you "Stomp" and the ABS begins cycling — you will feel pulses in the pedal or hear the system working — ease up slightly on the pedal until the pulsing happens only once a second.
For vehicles without ABS, you'll have to rely on the old-fashioned system: You. For non-ABS on a mixed-surface road, push the brake pedal hard until the wheels stop rolling, then immediately release the brake enough to allow the wheels to begin turning again. Repeat this sequence rapidly. This is not the same as "pumping the brake." Your goal is to have the tires producing maximum grip regardless of whether the surface is snow, ice or damp pavement.
For vehicles without ABS, you'll have to rely on the old-fashioned system: You. For non-ABS on a mixed-surface road, push the brake pedal hard until the wheels stop rolling, then immediately release the brake enough to allow the wheels to begin turning again. Repeat this sequence rapidly. This is not the same as "pumping the brake." Your goal is to have the tires producing maximum grip regardless of whether the surface is snow, ice or damp pavement.
More good reading for those interested in learning instead of complaining:
http://www.abs-education.org/news/nwwinter97.htm
Last edited by NovaResource; 01-29-2010 at 10:19 AM. Reason: Added links for how ABS brakes work
#17
01-30-2010, 08:09 PM
Modern snow tires are really amazing. All-Season tires are really only 3-season tires if you get a lot of snow. While it may seem like a lot of money purchasing 2 sets of tires, the performance gain is amazing. Buying summer tires for 3 of the seasons (instead of all-seasons) will get you better 3-season performance and then switching to winter tire the other season gives you better winter performance. Bottom line, your tires will last longer and you will end up spending the same amount anyway.
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/...y.jsp?ttid=135
FWD with snow tires is way better than AWD with All-Season tires. AWD with snow tires is even better. It all comes down to the contact of the tires to the road. AWD does not make up for the loss of traction with poor tires. AWD with tires that don't grip just means you have 4 wheels spinning instead of 2.
http://www.tirerack.com/winter/tech/...jsp?techid=122
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/...y.jsp?ttid=135
FWD with snow tires is way better than AWD with All-Season tires. AWD with snow tires is even better. It all comes down to the contact of the tires to the road. AWD does not make up for the loss of traction with poor tires. AWD with tires that don't grip just means you have 4 wheels spinning instead of 2.
http://www.tirerack.com/winter/tech/...jsp?techid=122
Last edited by NovaResource; 01-20-2011 at 07:27 AM.
#18
02-01-2010, 09:31 AM
Another solution to the ABS wanting to lock up is cross-drilled rotors. They are made to brake in adverse weather conditions without the ABS locking. That's why all of your high-end cars have them. I installed some on my car and the braking is awesome!
#19
02-01-2010, 09:58 AM
That's not true.
First, the only way rotors can make the brakes lock less is if they do a worse job of braking. The ABS kicks in for one reason: because the wheel locked. That measn the brakes are working and the tires are losing traction to the road. The answer to ABS kicking in is getting more traction to the road. Once you get more traction and are unable to lock the wheels, only then will you need better brakes.
Second, cross drilled rotors on a street car are mostly for show only. And in reality, most high-end cars and race car are moving away from cross drilled rotors because they tend to crack more.
First, the only way rotors can make the brakes lock less is if they do a worse job of braking. The ABS kicks in for one reason: because the wheel locked. That measn the brakes are working and the tires are losing traction to the road. The answer to ABS kicking in is getting more traction to the road. Once you get more traction and are unable to lock the wheels, only then will you need better brakes.
Second, cross drilled rotors on a street car are mostly for show only. And in reality, most high-end cars and race car are moving away from cross drilled rotors because they tend to crack more.
#20
02-02-2010, 10:54 AM
Snow tires
So the problem is traction and the answer is snow tires.
Thank you Nova for the informative post. I appreciate that more then the other comments. To your credit most people say not to pump ABS. Out in the field the practice works better then not.
My home town got it a 100 year snow. So far my car hadn't been so bad in the typical light snows we get but we had 2-3 weeks of 6 inch snow with 0-10 degree temps.
I've only pumped my breaks twice in my car. The first snow I took it out into a parking lot and got a feel for how it handled. The ABS would lock at speeds lower then 10mph. New car, new tires (not snow tires) and I'm sliding at 10mph. I pumped the breaks and it stopped the car. The last time I pumped the breaks I was heading down a hill, light turns red and I tap the breaks. ABS lock and I start to slide. I pumped the breaks and stopped myself within 2 car lengths of the time I started to slide. My speed was between 15-20mph. If I stayed on the breaks the wheels would've remained locked and I would continue to slide.
Most of my other cars were manuals so downshifting (not breaking) has always solved the stopping problem in ice and snow.
My question now is how different are ABS breaks on different vehicles?
Are the ones on the Elantra or the ones Hyundai use more sensitive then most?
Thank you Nova for the informative post. I appreciate that more then the other comments. To your credit most people say not to pump ABS. Out in the field the practice works better then not.
My home town got it a 100 year snow. So far my car hadn't been so bad in the typical light snows we get but we had 2-3 weeks of 6 inch snow with 0-10 degree temps.
I've only pumped my breaks twice in my car. The first snow I took it out into a parking lot and got a feel for how it handled. The ABS would lock at speeds lower then 10mph. New car, new tires (not snow tires) and I'm sliding at 10mph. I pumped the breaks and it stopped the car. The last time I pumped the breaks I was heading down a hill, light turns red and I tap the breaks. ABS lock and I start to slide. I pumped the breaks and stopped myself within 2 car lengths of the time I started to slide. My speed was between 15-20mph. If I stayed on the breaks the wheels would've remained locked and I would continue to slide.
Most of my other cars were manuals so downshifting (not breaking) has always solved the stopping problem in ice and snow.
My question now is how different are ABS breaks on different vehicles?
Are the ones on the Elantra or the ones Hyundai use more sensitive then most?